You're raising a very serious question.

I think I haven't been that clear.

This might get me in trouble with some of my friends.

I've always felt that that insurgency within that party was possible.

My position was that it was possible under a Bernie Sanders, as you just began to allude to again.

But they weren't prepared to, in fact, do it.

So it wasn't just being inside the Democratic Party.

Just because you run under the Democratic Party line doesn't mean that there's some kind of

magical transformation. You become a centrist. No, if you prepare, if you have a political line

that's progressive, even revolutionary, if you are able to organize in that party and push that line and you're prepared to go all the way, it could be done.

People don't realize how fragile that party really is. This notion that is completely controlled by the neoliberal elites, that's true.

But the fact of the matter is there are real fractures in that party. There's real spaces that could be exploited within that party.

The issue is you haven't had people with any real creativity that have been able to take

advantage of that. And you have this issue of fashioning an ideological position. But you start

up saying you hope you don't need to take an ideological line. What was wrong with that?

Well, because people on the internet are very like, oh, you want to suckle at the tea of the Democratic Party, Brianna. You're arguing against Dr. Cornell West. Why are you being such a shill for cheap hurting? So I'm just trying to preempt that. Like, I don't know. I'm just trying to find out what the best options are. I'm not taking a position. I'm just trying to moot all of the options. That's all I'm saying.

Okay. Yeah, well, look, this ideological struggle has to be front and center. And my position has always been that the people who find themselves on the so-called left, they have to push their ideals, the values, without apology, with boldness. Because we believe, and I think that it's true, that we are on the right side of history.

I don't know that sounds like a cliche and all that. I don't give it. I don't care.

The issue is that basically the realities that people are facing today are such that if we don't have a radical alternative, that basically we might as

just color today.

We're not going to be able to deal with the contradictions of climate change.

We're not going to be able to deal with this militarism that in Ukraine, for example, is

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