This is the process working. This is the dynamic that we should want on every issue where the Republicans see an opportunity to criticize Democrats

where the Democrats deserve to be criticized, even if the Republicans motive is just a purely a moral opportunistic motive.

And the Democrats have to respond by actually doing something. That's the dynamic we want on every issue.

All right. It's always a pleasure to have David Sarota, veteran reporter, former Bernie speech writer, and of course the founder of the absolutely irreplaceable the lever here on bad faith podcast, but it's particularly a pleasure to have him in the context of the continually unfolding disaster in East Palestine, because no one has been doing as comprehensive as critical as useful.

coverage of that disaster as you and your team have been doing over at the lever David to thank you for joining us today.

Thank you. And thanks for saying that it's absolutely true that first article that you put out shortly after the crash that was so comprehensive has been a touchstone for me personally in the discussions I've been having over at the hill and other places.

I truly don't know what I would do without it, especially because we've seen an emerging counter narrative that sees be working over time to absolve Northfolk Southern, the rail company at issue here.

And frankly, politicians in both major corporate parties of any responsibility for what transpired in East Palestine.

And chief among those is this fact check that came out by Glenn Kessler last week on the Washington Post titled so far Trump's rollback regulations can be blamed for Ohio train wreck.

Now what's funny I saw some people, because I was mad about this because of the so far.

Which you know to be fair, I mean, I think some people are waiting to get a conclusive report from the NSTB about what actually concretely was the cause of this crash, but just to take a step back David.

What do you say to folks that say the regulatory story here is a non issue.

Well, there's a bunch of regulatory stories that are at issue first and foremost what I find funny and also maddening is this narrow statement that Donald Trump repealing the ECP break, which is a break rule for about electronic breaks, a mandate for electronic breaks.

This wouldn't have affected the specific Ohio train derailment and then that statement being said without a follow up as to why.

Well, why wouldn't Donald Trump's repeal have had anything to do with the Ohio derailment.

The answer to it is because before Donald Trump repealed the ECP break rule, the Obama administration narrowed all of the rules governing has met trains narrowed those rules to the point of exempting the Ohio train from all of those rules.

This is a part of the story that we at the lever managed to report out originally and managed to get it into our big New York Times op-ed about this, but that the media subsequently has essentially memory hold it's gone.

You cannot find this and to me this is just as big a problem as anything that Trump had done.

So back in 2014, the Obama administration was considering new rules governing trains carrying hazardous materials.

There had been a number of derailments and disasters dealing a lot with oil trains, but there was also a disaster in New Jersey, a derailment of actually a train with the same chemicals that were at issue in East Palestine, final chloride.

And the Obama administration put forward new rules to tighten the regulations on these trains. And the NTSB at the time went to the Obama administration and said, you need to make sure that these rules cover trains carrying all sorts of chemicals, not just oil and ethanol, but also trains carrying what's known as class to the flammable materials, combustible materials.

And the Obama administration ended up siding with the chemical industry lobby, which said, no, no, no, no, you should not have these rules cover trains that are carrying those compounds.

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