Part 2, A.C. Grayling, the philosopher. Okay, Professor Grayling, so a common title that you're known as is the fifth horseman of new atheism.

Can you tell us if that fully reflects your philosophical views?

Well, I don't think atheism has ever been new.

I mean, it's a very, very old tradition.

You look at the philosophical traditions of India, for example, going back literally

thousands of years, and there's very, very powerful atheist traditions there. But I am an atheist.

I'm perfectly happy to accept that term, although, of course, it's a term used by theists

to describe people who don't agree with them. Now, I've often pointed out, and this is now a familiar point, but it really does capture the matter,

that the relationship between theists, that is people who believe that there are supernatural beings in the world

or in the universe in some way, or associated with the universe in some,

that their relation to the people they call atheists is the same as the

relation between people who collect stamps and people who don't.

So the stamp collectors might call those who don't collect stamps a stamp collectors, the

way the theists call us A-A-A-theists.

But there's a much better name for us. Freethinkers maybe, or

sometimes naturalists, or people get muddled about that and think you take your clothes off

and run around the woods at the weekend. But I suppose a free thinker is probably the best

description. But I'm perfectly happy with the word atheist, but I do always insist that

people recognize what the theism, atheism debate is about. It's a metaphysical debate about what

exists or doesn't exist, either in or in some way associated with the universe. Are there supernatural

entities, agencies, something, gods, goddesses, fairies?

I mean, think of anything which is not governed by our understanding of natural law.

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