Episode 239: Let's Talk About Enmeshment | A Conversation with Dr. Julie Hanks

At Last She Said It

Cynthia Winward

Religion & Spirituality, Feminism, Motherhood, Ldswomen, Spirituality, Lds, Thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints, Mormonwomen, Religion, Marriage, Mormon, Faith

5 • 900 Ratings

🗓️ 14 October 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

"Differentiation of self is being a unique individual while maintaining connection with people you love," explains Dr. Julie Hanks. "We've been trained, particularly as women, to be enmeshed—to feel other people's pain for them. And that does no one any good. It doesn't help them, and it doesn't help us." On Episode 239, Dr. Hanks joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about enmeshment. It has been a core theme in her 30 years of practice as a therapist in Utah, working with families in which "the boundaries are not clear at all and everything's everyone's business." So why are some Latter-day Saints prone to focusing too much on the lives and choices of their children or other family members? Does our church have teachings that actually promote family enmeshment?

Transcript

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0:00.0	And we're good at it.
0:05.0	I mean, I grew up regulating my parents and helping with siblings and I'm really good at it.
0:11.0	I've had to work so hard to set emotional boundaries and I like I'll imagine I'm in a bubble, right?
0:19.0	And people stuff, it's like I can see it, I can validate it, but it doesn't sink in.
0:22.2	It just hits the bubble and slides down.
0:25.9	I'm so tuned in to other people that I can quickly go into that.
0:30.8	Hairtaking and like I'll be who you need me to be kind of shapeshifting, you know,
0:36.0	in order to make you feel better. And that just, that hurts us.
0:43.0	Hello, I'm Susan Hinkley. And I am Cynthia Winward. And this is at last she said it. We are
0:49.0	women of faith discussing complicated things. And the title of today's episode is, let's talk about enmeshment a conversation with
0:56.8	dr julie de azavado hanks hello julie hello so glad to be here we're thrilled to have you back welcome
1:05.4	thank you thank you i think that you're a guest who needs absolutely no introduction whatsoever, but is there
1:14.3	anything that you'd like to tell our listeners about yourself before we get into the conversation?
1:19.6	I have four adult children, so I get to practice what I preach on a regular basis.
1:25.6	I love hearing that because I'm trying to practice the things you preach and it's not that easy, I'm just going to say.
1:33.3	So I think Cynthia is going to lead us through the discussion today.
1:36.3	So I'm just going to turn it over to Cynthia to intro the topic and let's get into it.
1:40.3	Take it away, Cynthia.
1:42.3	All right.
1:43.3	Well, I am super glad to have Julie here, and I feel like, Susan,
1:48.0	when we have therapists on the show, that we often kind of use it as personal therapy for us. So today may not be
1:56.0	today may not be that different because we need all kinds of help as well in talking about enmeshment.
	...

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