the point being that it was a continuation of that project of utilizing these kind of

right-wing fascist, nationalist connections in order to, you know, I mean, for US and EU

interests in, you know, making sure the regime change was continuing to be successful.

The Ukraine and Europe initiative that you mentioned was itself started with a partnership

between the Atlantic Council and the Ukrainian World Congress.

Yes, the Ukrainian World Congress. That's the one I was thinking of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's like literally controlled by the OUNB. And so, I mean, that's just one example,

but they do have ties to the Atlantic Council and, yeah, and it's kind of like the whole

point of these front groups as they pose. They get to pose as representatives, not just

of the OUNB, but the Ukrainian diaspora. And I guess still less extent to date, but Ukrainian

Americans and Ukrainian Canadians have exerted a lot of influence. And, you know, they can

make the difference in elections more locally.

That's like Don Hughes in particular here.