Hi, James.

Ben, how are you?

I'm good.

I'm feeling very, very meta, but not nearly as meta as our listeners are going to feel in just a couple minutes here.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

It's almost an immediate segue into what we're going to talk about.

Well, first, how are you?

I trust you're feeling better.

I'm feeling fantastic, which is a nice feeling given the past few weeks.

I've just got out of the pool. Excellent. So that's good here. Hopefully we didn't run into anybody.

I did. Yeah. I was super paranoid about that when I first jumped in. I was like everybody's out to get me.

And now it's been long enough since the operation that I've forgotten all about it. And I'm swimming like normal. But no,

no accidents. And it was a beautiful Californian evening for a pool. There was this crazy cloud

formation. And I swim in the Stanford pool. And doing backstroke looking up, it was just one of

those nights where you're just like pinching yourself thinking, wow, I really am lucky to be here right now. Yeah, I mean,

that's the thing everyone complains about the, about the housing prices. And then, and then you remember

that you're going to live in. Paradise. Exactly. Yeah, it was a nice night. Cool. Well, we are, the meta comment is we are going to podcast about podcasting.

Yeah.

I'm looking forward to this conversation actually because it's like more so than a lot of the other ones.

I feel like we're really, we're like, it's nice when it relates to you, but it also makes it difficult sometimes because like you

need to step outside your own shoes as well and and look at it from the broader context

absolutely and i think that that's the that's the hardest thing about writing articles like this

...