The Tom Woods Show, episode 859.

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Hey, everybody, Tom Woods here, talking today about the administrative state, the various

federal agencies and how they've become more or less fiefdoms unto themselves. And we're doing so

with Paul Moreno, who's a professor of constitutional history at Hillsdale College, and he's the

author most recently of The Bureaucrat Kings, the origins and underpinnings of America's bureaucratic state.

Paul, welcome to the show.

Thanks very much for having me, Dob.

I'm very interested in the subject of the administrative state.

I had a guy, now I'm trying to think of his name, might have been Philip Hamburger from Columbia Law School who's done good work on this.

It's very unusual to be able to say

somebody on Columbia Law School has done anything good on anything. That's why I remember him.

But I saw your book, The Bureaucrat Kings, and I thought, all right, this is a great opportunity

to really get into the meat of where this all came from. Now, let me start up by playing devil's

advocate here. Let's say most Americans

...