Hello and we are here and

welcome to the Antifada where unrest is best.

I'm Jamie Peck.

I'm Andy. And we are here with Alex Fettale today. He is a sociology professor at

Brooklyn College, a writer for the appeal, the nation and truth out, and the author of a book we're going to be discussing today

called the end of policing out now on first so books. Welcome Alex how you doing?

I'm excellent thanks so much for having me on. Today we're going to talk about a subject very close to all of our hearts here at the Antifada and that is the abolition of the carceral state.

We just did an episode very recently with no new jails,

with a nijia from no new jails, who is great.

And now we're doing another one on the end of policing so if it seems like the

antifada is turning into a police abolition podcast it is and I'm not mad at it

and at New York rate now a lot of the action in the street a lot of the

movement is around questions of also imagining what a world would look like

without the carstrel state of prison and police. Do you want to describe

your impressions of this this growing movement around decolonize this place and

no new jails? Yeah I don't think that it's, you know, that like new.

It's been evolving and taking different forms and expressions.

So for the last couple of years, it's really been focused on this no new jails front of trying to oppose the building of new

local jails to replace Rikers and that movement didn't really lend itself

exactly to like angry street protests.

So it was meeting with community groups

and doing some lobbying and this kind of grassroots mobilization, but the proposal to, you know, add yet more police

...