Ep. 581 - The Complex World of Plant/Fungi Interactions
In Defense of Plants Podcast
In Defense of Plants
4.8 • 1.3K Ratings
🗓️ 7 June 2026
⏱️ 74 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Plants are habitat. Heck, even a single leaf is habitat. Same goes for plant roots. This is especially true when we consider insects and fungi. But how do these organisms interact? How do they change over gradients of moisture, temperature, space, and time? Why do we consider some parasitic while others are mutualists? The world of ecological interactions is extremely complex but people like Dr. Chris Bivins are taking stabs at trying to gain insights piece by piece. Join us for an wonderfully deep dive on the amazing ways oaks, gall wasps, fungi, and mycoheterotrophic plants live out their mysterious lives together. This episode was produced in part by Chris, Gerald, Elise, Maggie, Mamie, A.J., Dallas, Channele, KC, Joe, Diane, Kim, Tanya, Neil, Matthew, April, Dana, Lilith, Sanza, Eva, Yellowroot, Wisewren, Nadia, Heidi, Blake, Josh, Laure, R.J., Carly, Lucia, Dana, Sarah, Lauren, Strych Mind, Linda, Sylvan, Austin, Sarah, Ethan, Elle, Steve, Cassie, Chuck, Aaron, Gillian, Abi, Rich, Shad, Maddie, Owen, Linda, Alana, Sigma, Max, Richard, Maia, Rens, David, Robert, Thomas, Valerie, Joan, Mohsin Kazmi Photography, Cathy, Simon, Nick, Paul, Charis, EJ, Laura, Sung, NOK, Stephen, Heidi, Kristin, Luke, Sea, Shannon, Thomas, Will, Jamie, Waverly, Brent, Tanner, Rick, Kazys, Dorothy, Katherine, Emily, Theo, Nichole, Paul, Karen, Randi, Caelan, Tom, Don, Susan, Corbin, Keena, Robin, Peter, Whitney, Kenned, Margaret, Daniel, Karen, David, Earl, Jocelyn, Gary, Krysta, Elizabeth, Southern California Carnivorous Plant Enthusiasts, Pattypollinators, Peter, Judson, Ella, Alex, Dan, Pamela, Peter, Andrea, Nathan, Karyn, Michelle, Jillian, Chellie, Linda, Laura, Miz Holly, Christie, Carlos, Paleo Fern, Levi, Sylvia, Lanny, Ben, Lily, Craig, Sarah, Lor, Monika, Brandon, Jeremy, Suzanne, Kristina, Christine, Silas, Michael, Aristia, Felicidad, Lauren, Danielle, Allie, Jeffrey, Amanda, Tommy, Marcel, C Leigh, Karma, Shelby, Christopher, Alvin, Arek, Chellie, Dani, Paul, Dani, Tara, Elly, Colleen, Natalie, Nathan, Ario, Laura, Cari, Margaret, Mary, Connor, Nathan, Jan, Jerome, Brian, Azomonas, Ellie, University Greens, Joseph, Melody, Patricia, Matthew, Garrett, John, Ashley, Cathrine, Melvin, OrangeJulian, Porter, Jules, Griff, Joan, Megan, Marabeth, Les, Ali, Southside Plants, Keiko, Robert, Bryce, Wilma, Amanda, Helen, Mikey, Michelle, German, Joerg, Cathy, Tate, Steve, Kae, Carole, Mr. Keith Santner, Lynn, Aaron, Sara, Kenned, Brett, Jocelyn, Ethan, Sheryl, Runaway Goldfish, Ryan, Chris, Alana, Rachel, Joanna, Lori, Paul, Griff, Matthew, Bobby, Vaibhav, Steven, Joseph, Brandon, Liam, Hall, Jared, Brandon, Christina, Carly, Kazys, Stephen, Katherine, Manny, doeg, Daniel, Tim, Philip, Tim, Lisa, Brodie, Bendix, Irene, holly, Sara, and Margie.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | conversations like you're about to hear do not happen unless you support indefensive plants |
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| 0:21.7 | completely separate podcasts. It explores a lot of really fun gardening topics, everything from |
| 0:26.6 | seed collection and storage to growing native plants, the struggles of trying to garden in different |
| 0:31.2 | climates, and so much more. It's a heck of a lot of fun. We're learning so much, and we're trying |
| 0:36.1 | to share that with you. So come on and join the Patreon over at patreon.com slash In Defensive Plants and help keep this show up and running in the process. I hope to see you over there. But in the meantime, on with the show. Hello everyone and welcome to the Indefensive Plants podcast, the official podcast of Indefensiveplants.com. What's up? This is your host, Matt. Welcome to the show. |
| 0:55.3 | How is everyone doing this week? I'm doing great because we are taking a deep dive into the |
| 0:59.8 | complicated nature of plant fungal interactions. This world is remarkably complex and everywhere we |
| 1:06.0 | look, we're learning something new each and every day. And today's a great example of the idea that plants are habitat, and not just plants as a |
| 1:13.8 | whole. |
| 1:14.2 | Different organs can be host to different communities of organisms, especially when it comes to |
| 1:19.3 | things like fungi, both living on and within the leaves themselves. |
| 1:23.0 | Joining us to talk about this is Dr. Chris Bivens, who spends a lot of time thinking about endophytic fungi |
| 1:29.0 | on leaves, the factors that can control their diversity, how they interact with the world of insect |
| 1:34.0 | galls. He's also very interested in what's going on underground in the world of microheterotrophic |
| 1:39.3 | plants, these plants that absolutely rely on fungi for their entire lives because they don't |
| 1:43.9 | themselves photosynthesize. This is such an interesting conversation, and Dr. plants that absolutely rely on fungi for their entire lives because they don't themselves |
| 1:44.5 | photosynthesize. This is such an interesting conversation, and Dr. Bivens' work stands is such a |
| 1:49.9 | great example of just how complex these interactions can be. But that is entirely enough out of me. |
| 1:54.4 | This is such a great conversation. Let's just get into it. Without further ado, |
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