4.8 • 1.2K Ratings
🗓️ 14 September 2025
⏱️ 46 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Ghost pipe (Monotropa uniflora) has captured the imaginations of many a hiker and can you blame them? What is not to love about a parasitic plant that bucks all the traditional plant trends? For as charismatic as this ghost pipe is, we still have a lot to learn about it. For instance, what has largely been considered a widespread single species turns out to by two. Join me and Ashley Keesling as we explore what it takes to uncover cryptic Monotropa diversity and what her research can tell us about its evolution and ecology. This episode was produced in part by Eva, Yellowroot, Wisewren, Nadia, Heidi, Blake, Josh, Laure, R.J., Carly, Lucia, Dana, Sarah, Lauren, Strych Mind, Linda, Sylvan, Austin, Sarah, Ethan, Elle, Steve, Cassie, Chuck, Aaron, Gillian, Abi, Rich, Shad, Maddie, Owen, Linda, Alana, Sigma, Max, Richard, Maia, Rens, David, Robert, Thomas, Valerie, Joan, Mohsin Kazmi Photography, Cathy, Simon, Nick, Paul, Charis, EJ, Laura, Sung, NOK, Stephen, Heidi, Kristin, Luke, Sea, Shannon, Thomas, Will, Jamie, Waverly, Brent, Tanner, Rick, Kazys, Dorothy, Katherine, Emily, Theo, Nichole, Paul, Karen, Randi, Caelan, Tom, Don, Susan, Corbin, Keena, Robin, Peter, Whitney, Kenned, Margaret, Daniel, Karen, David, Earl, Jocelyn, Gary, Krysta, Elizabeth, Southern California Carnivorous Plant Enthusiasts, Pattypollinators, Peter, Judson, Ella, Alex, Dan, Pamela, Peter, Andrea, Nathan, Karyn, Michelle, Jillian, Chellie, Linda, Laura, Miz Holly, Christie, Carlos, Paleo Fern, Levi, Sylvia, Lanny, Ben, Lily, Craig, Sarah, Lor, Monika, Brandon, Jeremy, Suzanne, Kristina, Christine, Silas, Michael, Aristia, Felicidad, Lauren, Danielle, Allie, Jeffrey, Amanda, Tommy, Marcel, C Leigh, Karma, Shelby, Christopher, Alvin, Arek, Chellie, Dani, Paul, Dani, Tara, Elly, Colleen, Natalie, Nathan, Ario, Laura, Cari, Margaret, Mary, Connor, Nathan, Jan, Jerome, Brian, Azomonas, Ellie, University Greens, Joseph, Melody, Patricia, Matthew, Garrett, John, Ashley, Cathrine, Melvin, OrangeJulian, Porter, Jules, Griff, Joan, Megan, Marabeth, Les, Ali, Southside Plants, Keiko, Robert, Bryce, Wilma, Amanda, Helen, Mikey, Michelle, German, Joerg, Cathy, Tate, Steve, Kae, Carole, Mr. Keith Santner, Lynn, Aaron, Sara, Kenned, Brett, Jocelyn, Ethan, Sheryl, Runaway Goldfish, Ryan, Chris, Alana, Rachel, Joanna, Lori, Paul, Griff, Matthew, Bobby, Vaibhav, Steven, Joseph, Brandon, Liam, Hall, Jared, Brandon, Christina, Carly, Kazys, Stephen, Katherine, Manny, doeg, Daniel, Tim, Philip, Tim, Lisa, Brodie, Bendix, Irene, holly, Sara, and Margie.
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| 0:00.0 | The Kankakee Mallo is one of the rarest plants in the country. |
| 0:03.5 | Its only native habitat was on this island in the middle of a river in Illinois. |
| 0:07.7 | About 10 years ago, some botanists went looking for it. |
| 0:10.7 | And what I remember is that we sort of pulled around the corner to park at the island. |
| 0:15.5 | And it was just, I remember feeling really like my heart kind of sank. |
| 0:19.7 | The island was covered with invasive plants. The rare |
| 0:23.0 | flower was nowhere to be found, but was it gone for good? Listen to the pink prairie mascot from |
| 0:29.1 | Points North, a show about the Great Lakes region. Subscribe to Points North wherever you find podcasts. |
| 0:34.9 | Hello everyone and welcome to the Indefensive Plants podcast, the official podcast of Indefensiveplants.com. What's up? This is your host, everyone and welcome to the indefensive plants podcast, the official podcast |
| 0:38.4 | of indefensiveplants.com. What's up? This is your host, Matt. Welcome to the show. How is |
| 0:42.3 | everyone doing this week? I'm doing great because today we are talking about cryptic diversity |
| 0:46.6 | in the world of ghost pipes. Many of you will know monotropo uniflora, the ghost pipe of North |
| 0:52.3 | America, and just how cool and weird this parasitic plant truly is. But there's a lot more going on that we don't know. And thanks to people like Ashley Kiesling, we're learning a little bit more about this plant and some of its cryptic relatives. This is a fascinating discussion. She is so good at talking about this kind of stuff, so I don't want to keep you from it any longer. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Ashley Keysling. |
| 1:13.3 | I hope you enjoy. |
| 1:33.8 | All. All right, Ashley Kiesling, welcome to the podcast. |
| 1:35.7 | I can't wait to pick your brain today. |
| 1:37.3 | But first, let's start off with an introduction. |
| 1:40.2 | Tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what it is you do. |
| 1:42.4 | Hi, thanks for having me. |
| 1:48.2 | So I'm Ashley Kiesling. I am currently a PhD student at Wayne State University in their genetics and genomics department. But previously, I was at Ohio State |
| 1:55.0 | University for my master's in the Department of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, where I got to study Ghost Pipe, as we'll talk about, which is the coolest play in the world. And, yeah, that's my background, and I kind of pivoted away. My background's in botany, but now I'm doing more molecular biology stuff. Right on. And what kind of started you on this journey? Were you more the molecular side of things to begin with? |
| 2:17.8 | Or did you always like plants and just found the molecular side of things was the most exciting |
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