Ep. 540 - The Phoenix Method COO Matt Rhodes - The Proven Mindset That Every Thriving COO Now Loves
Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Second in Command with Cameron Herold
4.9 • 224 Ratings
🗓️ 30 December 2025
⏱️ 41 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What if the only way to build a company and a life with true resilience was to let everything break? Are you burned out, questioning leadership, or stuck in a plateau while everyone expects you to “scale perfectly”?
In this episode, host Sivana Brewer sits down with Matt Rhodes, COO of The Phoenix Method and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments. Matt shares his raw story of rising from rock bottom, both in business and marriage, using a radical combination of systems, self-accountability, and explosive mindset shifts.
Discover how Matt and his wife Jen rebuilt trust, transformed company culture, and mastered the uncomfortable art of letting go… all while weathering the chaos of COVID and scaling new ventures.
Skip the endless analysis and unlock the real, actionable playbook for bouncing back stronger. Tune in now or risk staying stuck in mediocrity. This episode is an exclusive masterclass for COOs tired of perfection and ready for exceptional impact.
Timestamped Highlights
[00:00] – Why COOs must “let systems break” to escape perfection traps
[01:16] – The harsh wake-up call that shattered business—and marriage
[04:01] – How COVID exposed fragile culture—and forced total reinvention
[07:07] – The critical hiring shift: moving from sales stars to customer-first teams
[10:33] – Letting go, delegation, and the painful process that actually fueled growth
[13:52] – Fresh eyes: Why bringing in outsiders is the hidden superpower in scaling
[15:17] – The vital metrics Matt tracks weekly to prevent disaster before it hits
[19:07] – How Matt and Jen divided CEO/COO roles to leverage their strengths
[24:02] – Why top COOs never go it alone—the ROI (and resistance) of world-class coaching
[32:12] – Breaking isolation: Why environment and peer groups are every COO’s money-making secret
[36:43] – The one mindset shift that transformed results, inside and out
About the Guest
Matt Rhodes is the COO of The Phoenix Method and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments, with over 25 years of leadership experience across corporate America, fitness franchises, and strategic investing. Known for his real-world resilience and trailblazing company culture turnarounds, Matt is a go-to coach for leaders intent on transforming challenges into growth opportunities. His current roles reflect his commitment to systems-led scaling, paired with the uncommon honesty few executives dare to share.
🔗 LinkedIn | Website | Facebook | Instagram
Mentioned Resources
- Ram Dass
- Snap Fitness
- Closers.io
- EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System)
- Mindset Coaching
- Burning Man
About the Co-Host
Sivana Brewer is a Fractional COO for Remote Teams and former COO at Closers.io, where she helped scale the company to multiple eight figures and built over 500+ sales teams in just 2.5 years. She specializes in leadership development, remote operations, and systems that empower teams to grow sustainably.
🔗 Connect with Sivana on LinkedIn
Important Links
- Connect with Cameron: Website | LinkedIn
- Explore the COO Alliance - The World’s Leading Community for Seconds in Command
- Get Cameron’s book: Second in Command: Unleash the Power of Your COO Book
- Take Cameron’s leadership course: Invest In Your Leaders Online Course (Use promo code PODCAST10 before the end of the month for 10% off)
- Chat or video call with AI Cameron via Delphi
The Second in Command Podcast is an original production hosted by Cameron Herold and co-hosted by Sivana Brewer. Brought to you by COO Alliance. Production and editing by Podcast Your Brand.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | A mentor, it was all part of helping us to develop the Phoenix method and all that told me, |
| 0:05.2 | you know, your job as the number two and your wife's job is the number one. It's to build systems |
| 0:10.9 | and go hard and go heavy and break up. Let them break. You can never grow. You can never scale |
| 0:18.1 | being perfect. Do you do what you need to do today? Don't wait for it to be the |
| 0:22.0 | perfect time. Just launch whatever it is. And then your job is to go back in there and fix those |
| 0:26.9 | little things that are breaking. Welcome to the Second and Command podcast, produced by the |
| 0:36.3 | CO Alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Harold. |
| 0:40.8 | In the Second in Command podcast, we talked to top COOs who share the insights, strategies, and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. |
| 0:49.5 | And now here's your co-host, former COO of a multi-eight-figure remote company, and alumni member of the |
| 0:56.1 | COO Alliance, Savannah Brewer. |
| 1:02.0 | Today on the Second in Command, I am joined by Matt Rhodes, C.O.O. of the Phoenix Method, |
| 1:07.5 | and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments. Matt brings over 25 years of leadership |
| 1:12.2 | experience across corporate America, entrepreneurship, and strategic investing. He and his wife, Jen, |
| 1:17.7 | began their journey with Snap Fitness franchises and after navigating the challenges of COVID-19. |
| 1:22.5 | They launched the Phoenix Method, an online fitness, nutrition, and mindset company, helping clients transform |
| 1:28.4 | their health and lives. In this episode, Matt opens up about hitting rock bottom in business |
| 1:33.7 | and in marriage, and how in less than five years they not only recovered, but they are thriving. |
| 1:39.4 | We dive into the mindset shifts that fueled their turnaround, how they rebuilt a healthy company culture, |
| 1:45.5 | and the critical importance of surrounding yourself with the right people and environments |
| 1:49.0 | when facing isolation and the pressures of being a CEO or founder. |
| 1:53.2 | Whether you're leading a team, scaling a business, or simply looking for inspiration to persevere, |
| 1:57.7 | Math Story is a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and execution. Let's get |
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