I think capitalism allows us to not be creative, right?

Like capitalism says you want to catch up with your friend, well, here's a restaurant

where you could go buy a meal, pay $20 for a cocktail, and it's so easy, look, it's right here, you can do it.

But if you're not spending that money and you're not going to restaurants,

suddenly you have to use your brain a little bit and say,

well, how can I catch up with this person in a way that feels good and connective

without doing the thing that I've been brought up to do socially?

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to her money. Very glad to have you with us for this episode because it's an important one. We are talking about debt. And in this country, we don't just carry debt. We carry shame. We are told that if we are in debt, it's because we are irresponsible, undisciplined,

or simply not trying hard enough. And the advice is often the same. Budget better. Spend less.

Work more. But what happens when you do all of that and it still doesn't work? Should we really be blaming ourselves

or should we be pointing fingers at the system, which asks us to spend money to prove our worth

in the world and gives us higher and higher credit limits in order to do it.

That's where my guest today comes in.

Jamie Feldman is a writer, producer, and one of the voices behind the incredible new narrative

podcast, Debtheads, alongside her friend and co-creator Rachel Webster.

They describe it as a true crime investigation into the systemic murder of our bank accounts.

Here's the backstory.

After being laid off from her job at the Huffington Post in 2021, Jamie found herself

without 18,000 in consumer debt and no clear path out.

So she started talking about it honestly on TikTok.

Her story struck a nerve.

...