And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN, the Axviles, with your

host, David Axelrod.

I first met Ben Rhodes as a young speechwriter on foreign policy and national security issues

in the 2008 Barack Obama campaign.

But after the election, he became much more, not just the president's collaborator on speeches,

but one of his most important advisors.

He's been involved in all the major initiatives of the administration, and no one articulates

the president's thinking on national security better than Ben Rhodes.

I'd have a really fascinating conversation with him the other day.

Ben Rhodes, my friend, it's good to see you.

We spent a lot of time together.

And one thing I know about you is that this wasn't exactly your life plan to end up as the

deputy national security adviser for the president.

Tell me a little bit about how you grew up and what led to all of this.

Well, first of all, really good to be with you, David.

I always tell people when they ask me for job advice and how to be in the White House, that

the last thing I ever envisioned myself being was a deputy national security adviser,

and that the best plan is to not have a plan to be that.

That's my commencement.

Exactly.

Don't make any plans.

Don't think you're following the plan.

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