Zach talks with Brian and Toby, partners of 13 years, and dads of two daughters. They share openly about parenting, building a household on their own terms, and how their marriage has evolved through different phases, from dating in Manhattan to raising a family in Brooklyn. Brian and Toby talk about splitting household roles, setting expectations, and creating rules that bring freedom instead of friction. They also share how growing up gay shaped their ability to design a marriage without traditional templates, why openness and honesty fuel their intimacy, and how they balance parenting with maintaining fun and connection. Key Takeaways Parenting in phases – From toddlers to elementary-aged kids, parenting shifts from hands-on care to emotional presence, and Brian and Toby embrace each new stage. Custom rules reduce conflict – Alternating mornings, dividing domains like kitchen and bedtime, and setting an “11 a.m. rule” help keep household harmony. Gay marriage breaks the mold – Without pressure to follow traditional timelines, they built their relationship with more freedom and intentionality. From secrecy to openness – Their open marriage evolved from “don’t ask, don’t tell” to full transparency, deepening their trust and intimacy. Compersion in practice – They highlight how celebrating a partner’s happiness, whether in rest, personal pursuits, or relationships, can fuel closeness. Shared values of planning and fun – Their natural organization and commitment to joy give their family structure and spontaneity in equal measure. Guest Info BrianCo-host of the Dads and Daddies podcast. TobyExecutive producer and co-founder of an animation production studio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices