Ep 377 – MRV/MAV, Diet Breaks & Refeeds
Iron Culture presented by MASS
The MASS Crew
4.8 • 874 Ratings
🗓️ 27 May 2026
⏱️ 72 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Back in episode 375, Helms and Trex briefly mentioned a few "evidence-based fitness" topics for which their views have evolved over the years. In hindsight, they didn't give a few of those topics the time, attention, and explanation they deserve. So in this episode, Helms and Trex take a closer look at two key topics: maximum recoverable (or adaptable) training volume, and various approaches to strategically manipulating leptin levels (such as refeeds and diet breaks).
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Iron Culture is proudly presented by the MASS Research Review. Mostly because Helms and Trex are co-owners. massresearchreview.com
Chapters
00:00 Intro
04:11 The origins of MRV/MAV
07:08 Updated perspectives on MRV/MAV
14:26 Practically applying MRV/MAV
17:11 Helms' current volume adjustments
24:30 Updating models in science
29:20 The importance of leptin
32:42 The origins of Trex's interest in manipulating leptin
38:47 Running studies on diet breaks and refeeds
44:27 Recent meta-analysis on intermittent dieting strategies
50:19 Trex's current perspective on refeeds and diet breaks
53:47 Behavioral versus physiological effects
59:09 Contextual use of intermittent dieting
1:06:34 Wrapping up
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Iron Culture. |
| 0:07.0 | Presented by Mass. It is me, Eric Trexler, here, Down Under in Australia with the Dr. Eric Helms. |
| 0:14.0 | Helms. How are we doing tonight? We agree on the time zone, finally. |
| 0:17.0 | We're in the same place. So I think that means we're in the same time zone and the same day. Yep. And I'm doing well because we just had our other episode that we just |
| 0:27.6 | recorded and we're feeling good. We're enjoying it. And we're going to do another one. So obviously, |
| 0:32.2 | it's good convo and we want to keep it rolling. Absolutely. I'm good. Yeah, there's there's no |
| 0:37.3 | room for any banter or chatter here. |
| 0:39.5 | We're all business. |
| 0:40.8 | We are here for work. |
| 0:42.4 | This is the SNA conference. |
| 0:43.8 | You only get one a year. |
| 0:45.3 | So it's time to dive in, I think. |
| 0:46.9 | Yep. |
| 0:47.3 | And we did get some comments. |
| 0:50.2 | We got some DM specifically asking us, |
| 0:52.8 | hey, you guys kind of glossed over some pretty big things that you changed your mind on. |
| 1:00.2 | Because our last episode that we recorded not in the same physical location, we brought up three things that we had changed our mind on each. |
| 1:08.1 | And I think we got, I got some questions related to MRV MAV. |
| 1:12.4 | Yeah. Because I think there was a lot of people who are like, hey, hold the phone. I thought |
| 1:16.9 | you were on a fundamentally different page as Mike Isertel, but you guys are living in 20-something team. |
| 1:22.7 | And I think you wanted to expand a little bit more and maybe like leptin, nocebo placebo. I can't remember exactly what. But yeah, good stuff to talk about. And I didn't know that living in 20-something teen was still an option. Can I do that? It was before COVID. It was a good time. I had a really good time in the 20 teens. Like I wouldn't mind going back a little bit. I don't want to go back to like the 1800s, but the 20 teens I could definitely live with. |
| 2:17.8 | Yeah. There are some issues of going back too far. Right. But I think seven years is totally like a solid option. Yeah. So you've really piqued my interest. I want to get on that train. But in any case, yeah. So for folks who are, you know, a little disoriented, I forget the episode number, but it was about humility and science. Yes. And we're talking all about things we've changed our mind on. You talked about, you know, changing your mind on kind of. And we're glossing over it for the details, for all the nuances, you know, check out the full episode. But the whole all foods fit mantra, you know, say, well, maybe there's some times where that's maybe not the way |
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