Hey, everybody, welcome. And thank you for listening to this episode of Marriage Therapy Radio. My name is Zach.

I'm usually here with Laura, but not today. Today I'm here with Dr. Jennifer Grace Bird. I have known Jennifer

Bird since we were in high school together. She was Jenny then. In the meantime, she has become a

biblical scholar, focusing her work on what the Bible has to say about marriage. This episode might not be for you. It's definitely not for you if you don't care at all what the Bible has to say about marriage. And it might not be for you even if you do care what the Bible says, because it might not say what you think it says. And that was what I wanted to talk to Dr. Bird about, pick her brain and just sort of understand a little bit of what is going on there. We get our second Pamio of the month,

which is exciting. Also, my mother makes an appearance twice, which is kind of fun. And I just really

enjoyed catching up with Jennifer Bird. I think you'll enjoy hearing how her brain works,

particularly when it comes to the Bible and marriage.

This is a very cool conversation.

Stick around.

You've been on my list for a really long time

because I get this question a lot,

or I get this a lot.

People say, hey, we just really want to have like a, like a Christian marriage or

biblical marriage. And I'm like, great. So you're going to like go to work for a year? You're going to stay home from work for a year, you know, and do that whole bit. We're like in the Old Testament, sort of like the husband, he just stops working and he stays home and he hangs out with them for that what you want?

Is that what you mean?

And you mean that you're going to have multiple women in your bedroom at times? Like, what does that actually mean? So here's what I want to do. I want to just like, I want you to talk. I want to ask you questions. I want also, though, our listeners to appreciate that this is going to probably stir the pot a little bit because if if our conversation

is anything like your book like people are going to have to go wait a second is that really is that

really how it goes and what what about this and well i thought and i think we ought to do that i think

we ought to do that about the bible i think we ought to do that about because I'll tell you this, I don't know if like 18-year-old me would call 49-year-old me a Christian. Right. Like, yeah. I just don't know if he would. You probably would. Because it's just really different the way I express and experience and feel all that. So I think let's just get to it because I'm excited about it.

I am too.

I'm thrilled that you asked me to come have this conversation.

So you graduated from high school in Veronica, Virginia, you go to college, you change your

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