Ep. 231 - Dr. Michelle Keener "Comfort in the Ashes" pt. 1
The Deconstructionists
John Williamson
4.4 • 823 Ratings
🗓️ 2 March 2026
⏱️ 38 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors.
The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience.
In Part 1, we focus on foundations:
- How the Book of Job has traditionally been taught—and why those interpretations often fail trauma survivors
- The difference between theological explanation and pastoral care
- Why certainty can feel safer than honesty, even when it causes harm
- How questioning inherited beliefs can be an act of survival, not rebellion
This conversation isn’t about solving suffering or defending doctrine.
It’s about slowing down, listening well, and making room for pain without trying to explain it away.
Guest Bio:
Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.
https://www.michellekeener.com/
For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast
Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.
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Transcript
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| 0:37.7 | disease. So the kind of sassy response, I would say to that is put your people above your |
| 0:44.7 | brand. And again, there are some very egregious cases that you and I have apparently both seen. |
| 0:50.7 | There have been some that have been in the news, right? And very well-platformed and well-known |
| 0:56.3 | pastors who would say, don't ever go seek therapy. Always handle it in the house of God. Or don't |
| 1:02.7 | ever seek law enforcement. Handle it in the house of God. And my question is always, but why, right? |
| 1:09.2 | What are you protecting? And this idea of we need to keep it kind of hush, hush here, because again, we don't want |
| 1:15.5 | the outside world to look at us and have our brand, whether that's a specific church or |
| 1:20.6 | whether it's just sort of the idea of Christianity in general, we don't want that to be damaged. |
| 1:25.6 | And if you speak up, you are going to damage the kingdom of God. |
| 1:30.2 | Is the kingdom of God so fragile that it can't withstand truth? |
| 1:33.6 | That doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever. |
| 1:35.9 | So, yeah, so my, again, my kind of short answer to that would be, |
| 1:39.5 | if you have been called to shepherd God's people, then shepherd his people and not your brand. |
| 1:47.0 | Welcome to the Deconstructionist podcast. I'm your host John Williamson. And for a lot of people, |
| 1:57.5 | deconstruction doesn't start with disbelief, it starts with curiosity, |
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