And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN, the Axviles, with your

host, David Axelrod.

I sat down this week for the CNN version of the Axviles with former Secretary of State

Condolee Sir Rice, and needless to say there was plenty to talk about.

But all of it made the TV show.

Here is the entire conversation.

Madame Secretary, it's so good to be with you.

I'd like to spend a whole hour talking about college football and college basketball,

two passions that I know we share.

But I have to tell you, I actually came here for a little therapy.

I read your book Democracy, which is a great book, but it really feels like democracy is

being challenged right now.

Not just overseas, but here as well that the forces of nationalism and nativism are on

the march.

What is going on?

Well, there's no doubt that we're going through a pretty difficult period.

I say in the book that the forehorses of the apocalypse are back, populism and nativism.

I really think of it not even nationalism and protectionism and isolationism, and they

tend to ride together.

And I think we have to ask ourselves why has that happened?

Most of us who really believe that the global order that the United States helped to create

after World War II has benefited us greatly, have to recognize that there are those for whom

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