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Hey, everybody, welcome.

And thank you for listening to this episode of Marriage Therapy Radio.

I'm Zach.

I'm here with Laura.

There's this really weird phenomenon in my life where there have been a handful of men,

maybe half a dozen, who have had profound and positive impact on my life.

And their name is Steve.

If you haven't listened to a

conversation from a few weeks ago on the podcast with my friend Stephen James, you might want to

check that out. And then today we're talking to Steve Call, who was my very first supervisor

when I was first learning how to become a therapist, Steve and his wife Lisa Call, run in his

two called the Reconnected Institute for couples.

And it was just really great to sit with them again and hear about their work.

Blair and I are really good at tips and tricks and tactics.

But sitting with Steve and Lisa today was a really helpful reminder that sometimes that's not the point.

In fact, it's probably, maybe it's never the point.

The point is the stories, the stories that we tell each other, stories that we tell ourselves, the stories that we know or think we know, the stories we need to get to know in order to create empathy and compassion and connection with one another. It was a really good experience. It was a pleasure to introduce Laura to Steve and Lisa. This is a very cool conversation.

Stick around. I don't know where this conversation will go. It'll be interesting, but I think one of the

things I really appreciate about Steve is just a massive amount of authenticity. Like, just

you sort of can't do other, right? In fact, I wonder sometimes about your sense of humor. It's so dry. I'm like,

do you actually, do you, is it in there? You know, but like, it's like what you get is like truly

...