Hey guys, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of The D Brief.

Super excited to have my new friend, Noah's family, but not him, Dr. Greg Tennisoff, and just

an incredible professor at Biola University. Somebody I've tracked from a distance, not a stalker,

but have tracked your career, especially from your mom, just so proud. And super excited when,

and I don't know where I came across your writings, but it was either a podcast. I think it was

actually an

article in Biola's alumni magazine and I read about you and I went oh my gosh

this is what I've been saying for years so you're just bright enough to

actually put it in a book form I just complain about it but just this whole idea

that shame is not a totally bad thing and And that's the culture in which we live

where we're all shame is just awful and terrible. And I've been telling our church for years that

one of the things, one of the disservices we're doing to our younger generation is we haven't

given them a category to process shame because we tell them they shouldn't feel it. Yeah.

There's nothing shameful about you.

And I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson. He just talks about how terrible it is to tell a kid,

you shouldn't change. Like, you're perfect the way you are. And it's like you're not even close

to what you should be yet, and we should grow and change. And for me personally, shame was a huge part of my transformation. It's what led

me to repentance. It's what led me to just really, I need something outside of myself to change

myself. And so today, hopefully we can talk about this fine line between guilt and shame.

And I feel like people have these crazy definitions.

And for me it's blurry.

I'm not ever sure where one begins and one ends.

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