So Andy, reading Jarrett's book looking back into the early mid and late 20th century.

I'm back on my revanchish

dude.

I'm back on my bring back pre-progressive era

machine politics in New York City.

A brighter time, a time of wonderment, and joy in abundance for

the working class when you can make an entire career by knowing a guy who knows a guy. can have like a shitty crappy office somewhere

you do maybe three hours of work a week you get like not a lot of money working for

the city but you get a decent amount and you just sail out for like to like you're 55 years old and you take a retirement you just disappear from history that kind of like that that moment that machine politics corruption municipal governance moment I think is something if we're going to have

capitalism let's at least have like a corrupt patronage capitalism where everybody can wet their beak a little bit you know I have

good news for you fellows I believe that spirit is very much alive in the Department of

Correction which to my mind is of

correction which to my mind is very much a pre-Progressive era agency.

I mean you talk about all the reasons for why that is in your excellent book

Captives which we're going to talk about more but expand a little bit on that what is

it about the DOC and the maybe the Correction Officers Union that keeps that spirit alive.

Yeah, well they haven't done a land acknowledgement.

That's one way that they're not progressive.

But we'll work on that.

We'll work on that.

Well, an important part of the progressive era was placing city agencies under the

control of civilian experts versed in the social sciences, urban planning, medicine, and

...