Hi, this is Josh Marshall, and this is the Josh Marshall podcast. We are at the end of

2020.

Thank God.

Very, very eventful year in many ways a terrible, terrible year and so on so many

fronts I mean you know the obvious one being the pandemic that has killed hundreds of

thousands of Americans and has wrecked the economy and and led to even people who have remained healthy, losing their jobs, having great economic insecurity.

So many bad things. For many of us, it ended on a hopeful note when when Donald Trump was defeated

even if he doesn't realize that yet or he realizes it even if he won't admit it

yet him is one of the most fascinating things about about He realizes it, even if he won't admit it yet.

This is one of the most fascinating things about,

about Donald Trump.

It's always been to me is that there's,

I don't think his mind works with a, like for most of us, there can be a big

disjuncture between what we believe and what we say, right? I mean, you, you, hopefully for most of us, you, you, what you say is what you believe and things are coherent and consistent.

But if you say something that is different from what you believe,

there's kind of a dissonance, but with Donald Trump,

I have never thought that exists. I think you say what is helpful and and

what you believe is sort of something that just is a is a sort of a secondary condition of what you say.

You know, I say it, therefore I believe what I say, but it's, it's just, it doesn't exist as a, for him as a separate, a separate reality,

as a separate, you know, frame of cognition.

So a little detour there.

Before I introduce my co-host,

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