Hi and welcome to the Adam Ruins Everything podcast. I am your host Adam Conover.

I am also the host of Adam Ruins Everything, the TV show on True TV which airs Tuesday nights at 10 p.m. on True TV, which I hope you check out and you can

find clips in full episodes at true TV.com slash Adam Ruins Everything and the Watch True TV

app. But here's how the podcast works on the TV show. I talked to

incredible experts for like 90 seconds, two minutes. On this podcast I talked to

them for 45 minutes, sometimes even an hour, so we can really get into their deep

and wonderful work. Today on the show we have

Rosie Cooney who appeared on the Animals episode of Adam Ruins

Everything and just to like recap really quickly what this episode was about she

appeared in the trophy hunting

segment and in that segment we talk about how trophy hunting you guys know trophy

hunting when like rich guys go over to countries and kill lions and stuff

like that we're always like oh oh, that's terrible. We should ban it. In reality, that practice is actually

used in some countries, not all, to conserve entire species of animals. It's a really counterintuitive argument.

Honestly, it's one of the most challenging arguments we ever had on the show. Even we in

our writer's room had a lot of qualms about it. We were like, wait a second,

this really seemed, this is really a tough one. Do you really need to kill animals to save animals? Should we really suggest that this is okay? But the more we've looked into it, the more we found that this is a really compelling argument and incredibly expert, well-studied, compassionate people believe that this is honestly an approach that is worth considering and maintaining if you really want to

save the lives of these animals and Rosie Cooney is one of them. She is the chair

of this Sustainable Use and Livelyhood Specialist Group of the International

Union for Conservation of Nature, which is a very long title, but I swear is a very,

the IUCN is an extremely well-regarded group, so we're very lucky to have her.

So look, if you're one of the folks who watch this episode and had some questions about like how does this argument really work

...