This is Annie Grace and you're listening to this naked mind podcast where without judgment,

pain or rules, we explore the role of alcohol in our lives and culture.

Hi everyone, I'm so excited today because I have, he doesn't even know it yet, I have with me Dr. D. Jaffy and he is the person that really ignited my newest project, the Alcohol Experiment.

Dr. Jaffy and I were both speaking at a conference, the Harm Reduction Conference last November in San Diego and we sat down over coffee and some of the stuff that he told me about the landscape of just America and drinking and people seeking help.

And all of these things just blew my mind and so it launched me into the entire project that I'm now calling the Alcohol Experiment which was amazing and you probably don't know that but welcome.

I didn't. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

You failed to mention that we were having coffee sitting at the floor in the middle of this big room where everybody was walking past and I feel like I think we sat for like two hours and just kept talking.

It was so cool. It was so cool.

Yeah, it was great. So Dr. Jaffy is a behavioral neuroscientist from I believe you studied at the UCLA right?

Yeah, correct.

Yeah, absolutely.

Where I still teach to this day.

Okay, so professor as well and he just has a wealth of knowledge and like super thrilled to have you here.

It's great.

Thank you.

It's awesome.

So I'm going to throw a bunch of questions at you. So first of all, let's do it.

Let's talk about the things that you sort of told me that launched me.

So we were we were sitting down and I said, okay, this has been on my heart. This is big for me is that I talked to lots of people who feel like they're starting to question their drinking.

But forever turns them off. It turns them off and they run the other way and you told me a few different statistics that I'd love for you to just sort of share about kind of what that looks like.

Yeah, well, you know, Tom McClellan, I, excuse me, I don't remember the specific ones. We talked about so I'll just kind of talk about what I know about this area.

The guy named Tom McClellan, honestly, probably one of the top five addiction researchers of all times.

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