Emily Hoge on the Strange Evolution of Russian Veterans Organizations

The Lawfare Podcast

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 25 April 2022

⏱️ 37 minutes

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Summary

Emily Hoge is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Berkeley, writing a dissertation on Russian veterans groups from the Afghan war and their evolution over time. She wrote a recent piece in Lawfare about how these groups, which started as anti-war, anti-state, pro-veterans activist organizations, morphed into a big part of Vladimir Putin's propaganda operations. She joined Benjamin Wittes to talk about the history of these groups, how they emerged from the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan and the collapse of the Soviet Union to represent veterans all over the country, how Putin adopted their victimization narrative and made it key to his vision of the state's relations with the international order more broadly, and how these groups are now promoting the war in Ukraine.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
0:07.2	podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:18.2	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:32.6	It seems like the longer it goes on, the more committed they get to the idea that they
0:39.1	should support this war.
0:41.1	The fact that it's leading to deaths and more disabled soldiers is self-perpetuating
0:49.0	in terms of how they think of it.
0:52.1	If they start critiquing the war now, they're betraying the soldiers that have died or
0:56.9	have become disabled and so they have to continue to support the war in order to protect those
1:03.2	soldiers that have already been killed or disabled, even though it creates more and more of them.
1:09.6	I'm Benjamin Whittes and this is the LawFair podcast April 25th, 2022.
1:16.6	Emily Hogue is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Berkeley writing a dissertation
1:24.8	on Russian veterans groups from the Afghan war and their evolution over time.
1:31.8	She wrote a recent piece in LawFair about how these groups which started out as anti-war,
1:38.6	anti-state, pro-veterans activist organizations morphed into a big part of Vladimir Putin's
1:46.5	propaganda operations.
1:49.4	She joined me in the virtual jungle studio to talk about the history of these groups,
1:54.8	how they emerged from the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan and the collapse of the Soviet
2:00.2	Union to represent veterans all over the country, how Putin adopted their victimization
2:07.3	narrative and made it key to his vision of the state's relations with the international
	...

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