Ellen's best friends told us she couldn't even handle a bikini wax.

She had zero threshold for pain.

So how are we supposed to believe that this woman stabbed herself now, the medical examiner

sang 23 times?

And by the way, how did that stab count change from 2011 to now?

Welcome to the global phenomenon, surviving the survivor, where we bring you the best guests in all of true crime.

Here's your host, Emmy Award winning journalist Joel Waldman.

What's up, SCS Nation?

Welcome to Surviving and Survivor.

This is the show that brings you the very best guests in all of true crime.

And also, arguably, the oldest podcast hosts in the entire world.

We're back today with an emotional follow-up on the Ellen Greenberg case.

For those who have been following this show,

no, it is near and dear to my heart

and what I believe to be an absolute travesty of justice.

And by overwhelming demand,

you can sound the calm alarm.

She is back.

She is the matriarch of not just this show,

but the matriarch of podcasting in this country.

What kind of burden is that,

Karm for you to know that?

...