This is the first time in human history. We are mourning in future tense. It took six decades to ruin democracy.

Trump, Nigel Farage, Modi, Erdogan, Putin, they didn't do this. They are the outcome of a system.

A lot of people in these transitioning countries, countries that are not in authoritarianism yet, they don't want to catastrophize.

Are you saying they need to wake up?

We think that there will be a, I don't know, somebody will do something in the end. No, it's us.

Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World.

I'm Christian Gary Murphy and this is the podcast where we talk to extraordinary people about

the big ideas in their lives and the events that have helped shape them.

My guest this week is Ejé Temulkaran, an award-winning journalist and novelist who has spent years

warning that the collapse of democracy rarely announces itself

with a bang. Instead, it happens gradually. Institutions weaken, truth is eroded, and what once felt

unthinkable becomes normal. EJ knows this first hand. After being fired from her newspaper in Turkey

amid mounting political pressure, she watched her country slide towards what she says is

authoritarianism. A story she believes is no longer uniquely Turkish, but part of a wider global

pattern. In her writing, she argues that the real danger isn't just strong men or populist leaders,

but how easily societies adapt to them. Her latest book, Nation of Strangers, explores

belonging and exile, but beneath it lies the same urgent question that has defined much of her

work. How do democracies fail? And can they still be saved? You're welcome to ways to change the world.

Thank you for having me, Christian. It's amazing to be here.

If you could just change the world, what would you do?

I would make people believe in themselves, because I think they lost their faith in themselves.

That's why they gave up on changing the world.

...