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Let's find the conversation between your soul. UK slash podcast to learn more. Hello, Prestige Heads and welcome to American Prestige. I'm Danny Bessner, here as always with my friend, Unth, Comrade, Derek Davidson. And we're very excited to welcome back to the podcast today. Thia Riafrancos. Thia is an associate professor of political science at Providence College,

and author of the recently released extraction, The Frontiers of Green Capitalism. So,

Thea, thanks for joining us once again. Thanks for having me back. So why don't we start with

the book's central problem, as you perceive of it? Because like a good Marxist, not to say you're a Marxist, I don't know,

I assume you're thinking dialectically. So what are the tensions? What are the two theses

that will need to be transcended so that we don't cook our planet? Why don't you start with that

and we'll go from there? There is a central dilemma that animates the whole book and then a bunch of subsidiary

contradictions we might say that flow out of that.

But the central issue that drew me to this topic is the contradiction between two desirable

things.

On the one hand, we need rapid, urgent, holistic climate action. And climate action

is not just diplomacy. It's not just words. It's not just agreements or multilateral institutions,

which are kind of going up in flames right now. It is actually concrete material deployment of

technologies and infrastructures to completely transform the

built environment to get to a zero emissions economy and society and stave off the absolutely

worst and most catastrophic scenarios of global warming. So that's one thing we need to do and

would be a desirable outcome. Another desirable thing is to protect local communities

from the ravages of resource extraction

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