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Go to Economist.com and get your first month free. There is a big debate over the Trump vote of whether it should be understood primarily as

motivated by race and racial reaction by nativism a reaction on immigration and by cultural questions on the one side or by economics on the other.

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

Welcome to the podcast that searches for the ideas, policies and strategies

that can beat a four-time populist like Donald Trump over the next four years and the next 40.

Over the last days the Catalan independence referendum has been in the news. It doesn't easily fit in with the normal themes of a show.

It's not exactly a populist movement, but I think it reminds us that populism is actually just one aspect of a really turbulent political

era. I think, as I've sometimes talked about, with the rise of social media, political and economic elites have more trouble holding the system together

excluding more extreme voices and often those can be populist voices, they can be racist voices, but they can also be identity groups and in this particular case a sub-national identity group, the Catalans who suddenly find it much easier to organize against the political center.

This has potential, it can need to more justice, but can also be dangerous.

And I find it quite striking the way in which the situation has has escalated over the past weeks in Spain with the central government and local Catalan independent activists, really getting at loggerheads in a way which makes some forms of

civic strife no longer unthinkable.

So this is something to watch in Spain and it's more broadly something to realize about our age.

The kinds of changes we tend to talk about in this show are one subcategory of the broader possibilities

that have been raised in an era of change.

I'm really excited to have E.J. Dion join me today. He has so many honors and affiliations,

...