As a long time foreign correspondent, I've worked in lots of places, but nowhere is important

to the world as China.

I'm Jane Perlaz, former Beijing Bureau Chief for the New York Times.

Join me on my new podcast, Face Off, US versus China,

where I'll take you behind the scenes in the tumultuous US-China relationship.

Find face-off wherever you get your podcasts. You're going to be. Welcome everyone to another episode of Bro history. It's Henry's Amoda and

Danny of Delgebar. We have a guest on the show today, Matthew Ho, and Matthew

was a decorated captain in the Marine Corps and then worked in the State Department as part of the provincial reconstruction team in Afghanistan.

And back in 2009, Matt came out and blew the whistle on the Afghan surge when you know there was a big public relations campaign from the Pentagon to force Obama into escalating the war in Afghanistan.

Matthew, heroically, came out and publicly said,

do not do this.

It's not going to work.

And spoiler alert, they still did do it. Matthew, how's it going today?

We appreciate you joining us.

Good, thank you for having me here, guys.

Hey Matt, how hard is it for you not to go around screaming?

I told you so all day along.

I'm thinking maybe you should get a tattooed on you somewhere.

You know, it's actually there's really there's not really any joy in it, you know, I mean, particularly because maybe if those who had pushed these wars,

sustain them, lied about them, you know, cheer led for them, maybe if they were getting some form of justice, like, you know, a lot of

generals, politicians, media figures, think tankers, you know, if they were in stocks right now in the public square,

yeah, you know, I'd be happy to walk in front of them and smack them in the face or whatever,

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