Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt.

Today we are bringing you another episode in our series Drilling Deep in which we look at different books that are coming out, either on climate or on science or history, democracy, all of the things

that we kind of look at here on Drilled.

Most of the time these interviews are being done by Adam Lowenstein.

Bless him, he's reading all the books and talking to all the authors and having these

very, very interesting conversations.

Today we're bringing you a book that has a lot

to do with what's happening in climate politics at the moment because the annual conference of the

parties, the UN Climate Summit, is underway at the moment in Brazil. And it's a good time to look at

how that process has been politicized. In the book Existential Politics,

Jessica F. Green from the University of Toronto argues that head-on conflict with fossil fuel

interests is a prerequisite for real progress. Green is a longtime observer of global climate

negotiations and expert on carbon accounting, and she argues that the COP is a longtime observer of global climate negotiations and an expert on carbon accounting,

and she argues that the cop embodies a win-win approach to the problem of the climate crisis

and the transitions necessary to deal with it, for which someone has to lose.

The challenge then is to make sure the right people do the winning. Well, the

fossil asset owners, as Green describes them, do the losing. Adam had a really interesting

conversation with Green, who's someone that I've also spoken with in the past about cop proceedings.

She's really, really, really interesting on this stuff. I think you'll enjoy this chat.

It's coming up after this quick break. One thing I was curious about as I was reading the book is what the, what drove you to write this book?

Because it's incredibly complex stuff, as we were discussing a few minutes ago.

It's not uplifting.

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