I'm Emma Gunner Wardner, although you can call me Emma Gums and in this

podcast conversation I want to get to the bottom of one of those topics that can feel confusing and

bamboozling, and today I'm talking narcissism with the person widely thought to be the

authority on the subject, clinical psychologist Dr Ramani Devasula.

The lack of justice and how trauma survivors do need some form of justice, right?

And when it comes to narcissistic relationships in that sort of what we consider sort of that kind of

fundamental level of justice, right? That people don't get that sometimes everything keeps going well for the narcissist.

It's this gray area between the genuinely nice person, a person is empathy and in the name of empathy giving in to the narcissistic stuff because it's what we would do with a healthy person.

But the issue is that what we're not talking about, what we've never really talked about sufficiently, is how this affects other people.

Their conduct, their dismissiveness, their minimization, their entitlement, all of it,

their manipulment, all of it, it still hurts.

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