On this episode of Skeptico, a show about changing someone's mind.

What are you doing? Changing someone's mind. You can buy me 20 seconds.

No, trust me. Buy me 20 seconds. You trust me.

Okay. You trust it. Jim, June. I hate you up.

And how it almost never works.

Much like me before I had this crisis, you could not engage me in a conversation on this stuff.

And you can't force people to be interested in things are not interested in.

I find myself frustrated sometimes that I get confronted with these extremely limited, frankly

lazy explanations about materialism from other scientists.

And, you know, I just try to think back to myself.

And, you know, I could present them a huge reading list, but are they really going to go

read it?

That first clip was from Arrival, 2016. And the second one was from today's guest dr mona sabani

who i think you're really going to like as much as i do because she presents such an honest

and open account of just how hard it is to change our own mind, let alone change someone else's.

Stick around. It's a good one. I think you'll like it.

Welcome to Skeptico, where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading

researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I'm your host, Alex Akharson.

Today we welcome Dr. Mona Sabani to Skeptico to talk about her excellent new book,

Proof of Spiritual Phenomena, A Neuroscientist Discovery of the Ineffable Mysteries of the Universe.

By the way, Dr. Mona does the audible version of this too, which I listen to, and I always love that when the author does the narration, because you just can't help but get different points

of emphasis.

...