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It's 2023 and everybody is an anti-racist, including all of us here in Navara media to the likes of Black Rock and Walmart.

But does that mean that the term no longer really means anything?

And could some forms of anti-racism actually be hindering us addressing the problem of racism?

And that's the thesis of my guest today.

Arun Kunani is the author of The Muslims Are Coming. He has a new book out now.

And he thinks that you can't have a meaningful anti-racism unless you accompany it with anti-capitalism.

Arun, welcome to Downstreet.

Thank you very much.

For our audience, it is Aaron, isn't it?

It's Arun.

Yeah.

Aaron and Aaron.

We were talking before the show actually how you wanted it to be pronounced properly after about 25 because most people couldn't...

Most people pronounce your name like they pronounce my name during your childhood.

Yeah, when I turned up to school for the first time, aged five, you know, I'm saying I'll hide my name's Arun and they're like Aaron.

I'm like, no, Arun.

Aaron and we go back and forth a little and I'm like, whatever, Aaron.

So when I went right through school, everyone called me Aaron.

Come home, my parents called me Aaron.

...