It's a podcast crossover event.

If you haven't seen our next guest on her own show, The Tea, you've definitely seen her take on right-winger's and pro-Israel talking heads on your screens countless times.

Today I'm talking to Miriam Francois, and we're covering some familiar themes like the ongoing

genocide in Gaza and the rise of the far right in the UK today.

But we also go far beyond current affairs.

We talk about what really drives her as a person, her journey to Islam, her politicisation in Palestine,

and whether or not she thinks anti-racist change is actually possible.

I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I enjoyed conducting it.

See you on the other side.

Miriam Francois, welcome to downstream.

Thanks, Ash.

This feels like a crossover event between podcasts. It does indeed, yeah. And hopefully you'll be on ours soon as well. So we'll literally be a crossover. Yeah, you're going to be stuffing me into the boot of your car, like straight after this to make sure I come. That's the plan, I think. Oh, my think. The steel in the game.

So we're speaking on the week that the UK officially recognised the state of Palestine.

How impactful, how meaningful do you think that is?

So first of all, I would start by saying that, you know,

the Western recognition of Palestine is politically

important for the PA in particular, the Palestinian Authority who govern Palestine.

It's particularly important, I suppose, as a symbolic recognition of the longstanding

claims of the Palestinian people.

And in that sense, I don't ever want to demean what that

recognition entails. You know, actually on my way here, I was watching a compilation of various

political leaders, you know, announcing this recognition. And it was emotional, genuinely. I mean,

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