Welcome to downstream IRL.

As I'm sure you're all aware,

popular historians in this country can be a bit of a mixed bag.

So on the one hand, you've got those who say,

the empire was great, what are you whining about?

You didn't even deserve the fucking trains anyway.

And on the other, you've got many people

who can tell fascinating stories about individuals,

but don't really want to challenge dominant narratives of cultural superiority

or indeed our sense of what's normal and advantageous today.

William Dahl Ripple has, however, cut a very different path,

combining travel writing, art history, archaeology, however, cut a very different path. Combining travel writing, art history, archaeology,

architecture, cultural commentary. His books are both richly researched and also compellingly written.

His works on the history of India, the British Empire and the Islamic world have challenged

dominant narratives around

civilisation, conquest and cultural exchange. And in addition to his work as a historian,

he co-founded the Jaipur Literary Festival. And his podcast with Anita Anand Empire has hit

80 million downloads. Those are Ariana Grande numbers, mate. That's insane. We're here to

talk primarily about his book, The Golden Road, how ancient India transforms the world,

which is, I think, a kind of friendly retort to the Silk Road theory, which says that

the land trading route from China through Central Asia

and into Europe, you know, that's the central way for thinking about the kinds of exchanges

...