Downstream: Exposing the Lies of the 20th Century w/ Tariq Ali

Novara Media

News, Society & Culture, Politics, Philosophy

4.8 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 19 January 2026

⏱️ 110 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Our guest this week was born in 1943, in what was then British India – modern day Pakistan. Unlike most, who have learned history through books and second-hand sources, he has witnessed first-hand a great deal of the 20th and 21st centuries. Tariq Ali founded Verso Books, the leading left-wing publishing house in Britain, as well as the New Left Review. He met Malcolm X, was friends with John Lennon and Hugo Chavez, and spearheaded the anti-Vietnam War movement.

In conversation with Aaron Bastani, this week on Downstream we are talking about the ways we remember – and misremember – the 20th century, and how these events have a long tail that shape our present and future. How significant was the cultural revolution in China, in sparking anti-colonial struggles across Asia? How do the dynamics of the Cold War still dominate the mainstream media? And who are the substantial political figures and ideologies set to dominate the next decades of the 21st century?

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm 41 years old. I don't like saying that out loud. I don't like reminding myself of it. I'm 42 in a month. But even I, when I talk about history, whether it's with you guys or with our guests on here, it's from books.
0:21.9	I've not lived through it. I've not seen that much myself.
0:25.7	Today's guest has read a ton of books. They've written a lot of books as well.
0:30.0	But they observed some of the fundamental moments and episodes of the 20th and 21st centuries.
0:35.5	They visited Vietnam in 1967. They were in the USSR in the
0:39.9	1980s as it ebbed towards its final twilight. They met Henry Kissinger and Markham X. They had a song
0:48.5	by the Rolling Stones named after them. They inspired some pretty interesting people. And this idea of history being something
0:57.7	that you're a part of and live through and observe is critical for people going forward.
1:04.3	Churchill, who I'm not the biggest fan of, put it very well. He said the farther back you can look,
1:08.4	the farther forward you can see. And if you're interested in some of the grievances, wars, conflicts of our own time,
1:15.8	then you need to look back a really long way, often before you were born even,
1:20.0	whether that's Russia, Ukraine, US, UK, Greenland, the potential demise of NATO or Iran,
1:26.2	we are living in the aftermath of events stretching back
1:29.3	a really long time. So with that all said, today's guest is perfectly placed to talk about
1:36.0	the events of the 2020s and 2030s in a much bigger historical context and in a very informed
1:43.1	way. They helped found Verso, which is, I think, the major
1:47.3	left-wing publisher in Britain. They're active in the US as well. And of course, the new Left
1:52.7	Review, which is a journal of Left Wing Ideas stretching back decades. Tarak Ali, it's great to
1:59.2	finally have you on Downstream. Very good to be with you. We're very happy to have you. I'm going to start right from the top. You were born in 1943. It was a while ago. The world was quite different. In a very different part of the world, you were born in what was then British India. What politicised you?
2:20.4	Because you've previously been on the record as saying you knew which side you were on from out the age of 11 or 12.
2:22.2	Where did that come from?
2:23.9	It came from my parents, if the truth be told.
	...

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