You're listening to The Great Simplification with Nate Higgins.

That's me.

On this show, we try to explore and simplify what's happening with energy, the economy,

the environment, and our society.

Together with scientists, experts, and leaders, this show is about understanding the bird's-eye

view of how everything fits together, where we go from here and what we can do about it

as a society and as individuals.

This week, we welcome Douglas Rushkoff to the Great Simplification.

Douglas has spent nearly three decades studying and writing about technology and human behavior,

and he's the author of over 20 books.

He's also created three documentaries and as professor of media theory and digital economics

at CUNY, Queens College, where he founded the Laboratory

for Digital Humanism.

Today, Douglas and I discuss how human behavior interacts with technology and how we've arrived

at a place with enormous wealth and income inequality, as society is also rapidly approaching

biophysical limits.

Douglas unpacks parts of his new book, Survival of the Richest, Escape Fantasies

of the Tech Billionaires, on the need for us to collectively break away from a top-down

mindset in order to embrace

circularity and resiliency.

I'm pleased to welcome Douglas Rushkoff.

So I did read your recent book, The Survival of the Fittest, which is coming out,

...