A couple of years back, I did a recap show of season three of House of Cards. I invited political

scientists, journalists, old White House hands, and actors from the show to join me to talk about

each episode. You know, if you haven't listened, it definitely holds up, if I say so myself.

Anyway, on the occasion of the release last week of season five of House of Cards,

we thought we'd throw back to the episode where I sat down with Michael Kelly,

who plays Frank Underwood's lethally dedicated chief of staff, Doug Stamper.

This one is devoted to episode nine, which we're calling Bad Doug Rising.

And I'm joined by a very special guest for this episode, Michael Kelly, who plays Doug Stamper.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for having me.

Many, many say that this is actually Doug's season, a man who has through 13 episodes gone full circle.

So listeners to this podcast, at some point, if you haven't finished and you don't want to know what happens, dump out and I'll tell you when.

So, what's it like playing Doug? I mean, you've probably read the vulture recaps about how he goes into his cave of sadness. That's his apartment that gave. I like that.

That's good.

There's so much, especially this season, going on with him.

But it's interesting because in the beginning, I remember Bo Willemann calling me.

It was shortly after I found out I got the role.

And Bo called and said, he said, hey, I just wanted to say thank you.

We're all so excited to have you.

Let's talk a little bit about the character and i was like oh great yeah and he was like so really all i want from you in

season one is i just don't want you to to emote and that was and i said all right and he was like

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