Donald Hoffman vs. Philip Goff: Conscious Agents or Panpsychism?

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 19 December 2023

⏱️ 139 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Donald Hoffman, a cognitive scientist, and philosopher Philip Goff explore consciousness, perception, evolution, and panpsychism, questioning what is real. Their conversation probes the limits of neuroscience, the nature of reality, and the possibility of infinite consciousness.- 00:00 - Intro- 02:46 - Goff’s World View- 11:39 - Do Neurons Exist?- 28:30 - What Is Real?- 39:22 - Objections to Hoffman’s Views- 58:45 - Evolution- 1:37:19 - Reductionism- 1:49:38 - Meaning Of Life- 2:01:32 - Infinite Consciousness- 2:05:40 - Multiverse- 2:15:25 - OutroSPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal- Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything- TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerchRESOURCES:- Why? The Purpose of the Universe (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/3TBXl1M- The Case Against Reality (Donald Hoffman): https://amzn.to/4airlWu- Galileo's Error (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/482bg5Q- Consciousness and Fundamental Reality (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/3RvPKzq- Mind Chat (Goff's podcast): https://www.youtube.com/@MindChat- Podcast w/ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmieNQH7Q4w&t=0s- Podcast w/ Daniel Dennett: COMING SOON https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ7ikzmc6zlN6E8KrxcYCWQIHg2tfkqvR- Analysis of Matter (Bertrand Russell): https://amzn.to/3GPr1RE- A Brief History of Time (Stephen Hawking): https://amzn.to/41wH8gn- Debunking Interface Theory (Geoffrey Bagwell): https://philpapers.org/rec/BAGDIT- Quantum Bayesianism (Chris Fuchs): https://amzn.to/48nE3la- Fitness Beats Truth (Donald Hoffman): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33231784- Podcast w/ John Vervaeke Λ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTpdCVsttI&t=0s- Podcast w/ Joscha Bach Λ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSlYfVtgww&t=0s- Podcast w/ Bernardo Kastrup on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE&t=0s- Debate with Sean Carroll and Philip Goff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCPCyri1rXU&t=0s- Classic Paper on Fine-Tuning (Roger White, 2000): https://web.mit.edu/rog/www/papers/fine_tuning.pdf- Debate between Philip and Don on Philip's channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icY3Fuik2W4&t=0s Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. SPONSOR: I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Every scientific theory is only a projection of the truth. It's never the truth.
0:05.4	No scientific theory can ever be a theory of everything.
0:07.9	What does it mean as a philosopher interested in the ultimate nature of reality
0:12.3	that our basic science is just equations?
0:14.8	We're not seeing the truth. Evolution is an artifact.
0:18.0	Our basic science isn't really telling us that much about what fundamental reality is.
0:26.2	Professor Donald Hoffman and Professor Philip Goff are both renowned in their respective fields of cognitive science and philosophy.
0:33.1	Hoffman is a cognitive scientist who has put forward a theory called the Interface Theory of Perception,
0:39.2	which states that human perceptions are akin to some user interface shaped more by evolutionary survival imperatives
0:45.6	than by an accurate representation of the external world.
0:49.4	Thus, according to Hoffman, reality as we know it is some illusion.
0:53.3	In contrast, Professor of Durham University, Philip Goff, is known for panpsychism,
0:58.5	and so there's plenty of contrasting agreement in different words in today's theolocation,
1:03.3	as well as disagreement, primarily around the universe's fine-tuning for life, as well as
1:07.5	suggesting that, hey, they both agree consciousness is fundamental, but that
1:10.8	doesn't mean that what's derived from consciousness is illusory. Quite the contrary. Philip has just
1:15.5	published a book called Why, The Purpose of the Universe, and the links to that are in the description,
1:20.6	as well as his previous works, Galileo's error, and consciousness and fundamental reality. Even though
1:25.6	Professor Goff is known for panpsychism, his views are best described as
1:29.2	cosmocycism.
1:30.4	This means that the universe itself might be a conscious entity with its own goals.
1:34.5	My name is Kurtzai Mungle.
	...

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