Hello and welcome to the Euro Intelligence Podcast.

In this week's edition, we bring you a conversation between Wolfgang Munchau,

Director of Euro Intelligence and Domenico Siniscalco, a former Italian finance minister who now serves as vice chairman at Morgan Stanley.

Wolfgang, take it away.

Thank you, Paige.

Domenico, you have been a friend of your intelligence since we started 14 years ago.

We've had many conversations about the future of Europe.

Today, I would like to talk to you about the recovery fund in Italy.

This year, the EU has launched a Eurobond.

Or has it?

Was this the Hamiltonian moment?

And where does this leave Italy? Domenico,

thank you for joining me. Thank you very much, Volkan. I'm looking forward to this debate.

So do I, absolutely. And let's talk about, let's go straight to Italy.

Domenico, what do you think the Italian government will do with the money?

That's the big question mark and the big risk.

Assuming that the political establishment is the same,

I believe that we should try to concentrate our effort and the resources on a few major lines of intervention.

I myself advocate these policies to be horizontal rather

than sectoral. So I expect us to invest in broadband, school and human capital, health,

simplification, justice, etc. And in that case, I mean, it's pretty obvious that the productivity

and the growth rate could improve. On the other hand, at the other extreme of the spectrum,

...