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Hi, everybody.

From Wondery, welcome to another episode of Tides of History. I'm Patrick Wyman.

Thanks so much for joining me today. Like a great many of you listening to this, movies about the past were one of the biggest ways I fell in love with history.

Glory, Braveheart, dances with wolves. A long time before I could read Latin or took a college course or even knew what a primary source was,

those kinds of movies had already shaped my understanding of history.

And no matter how much I read, how many archaeological sites I visit or historians I talk to, those movies are still there now.

Today's guest spends a lot of time thinking about history and movies.

Dr. Jason Herbert holds a PhD

in American History from the University of Minnesota and works as a tribal liaison for the U.S.

Forest Service. He's also the host of the tremendously fun and informative podcast historians at the

movies, a show that I love dearly and had an incredible time guesting on. Jason, thank you so much

for joining me today. Dude, I'm so excited to be here. And yes, I am the historian with a PhD that says words like, dude and crap and the things, I guess. If you guys are listening, I have a baseball cap on backwards. Pat and I were talking before we started. And I was like, dude, I'm going to take a full on, bro. You have to go. Like, it's so rare that I get a chance to actually be a full bro, which is mostly what I am in my day-to-day life. Totally. Like on the podcast, I mean, to really get to drop in a hell yeah, or damn, bro. Like, I can't tell you how much it feels like I'm slipping into my natural skin here.

I'm a little embarrassed that I wore a shirt with sleeves to this conversation. I feel like

in my natural zone. Yeah, I mean, but even I'm wearing sleeves here. It's now November,

like, one must make some accommodations for the weather, unfortunately. I disagree, but I live in the mountains now. If I were in my home of Florida, I would full on be flip-flops. I'd be in Florida, man. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, I would be disappointed in you if you work, quite frankly. It'll disappoint me right now, but yes. Yeah, I mean, I'm disappointed. I've got sleeves on here. Arm prisons, man. Arm prisons.

Oh, I like that term. That's good.

It's what they are.

We're going to talk a little bit about movies and history.

And I think there is a unfortunate perception that historians are kill joys when it

comes to movies about the past, that people like you and I watch these movies and all we can do

...