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Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, Expectators Daily and sometimes more than daily politics

podcast. I'm Katie Balls and I'm joined by Isabel Hardman and James Forsyfe. After a torrid weekend

for Downing Street, after Dominic Cummings published a blog with several allegations towards

the Prime Minister, we had a further development today in terms of problems with Boris Johnson with a daily

mail front page, which ultimately suggested that the Prime Minister had at one point spoken

about bodies piling up and how that would have to happen in order to avoid another lockdown.

James, we spoke about us on the podcast this morning, but since then, we've had a few journalists, the BBC, Robert Peston, another for ITV and

also on Coffee House, saying that they have had this corroborated by several sources, yet we've

also had on the record denials from Boris Johnson in a pool clip. So are we any clearer as to

what is going on?

We're essentially in a standoff, which is you've got journalists reporting that they've cooperated the story, but their sources are not on the record. You have Boris Johnson denying

on the record that he said it. And I think this is, unless, as I said this morning,

unless there is a recording, and that seems unlikely given the

circumstances in which it seems to be said in Robert Peston, in Robert Peston's version of

events on coffeeouts, he says that this was shouted, you know, and heard down a hallway. So it doesn't

sound like a kind of thing that is likely to have been clipped. Then I think it will just kind of continue to be in this situation where some people say he said it,

he says he didn't say it.

And so I suspect that people's opinion on this will divide on the question of what he said.

So it was quite interesting.

I thought, Isabel has written about some coffeehouse in the Michael Gove's appearance in the commons.

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