This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brewski.

The Ruby Frankie case, it's one of those true crime stories that leaves you with far more questions than answers.

We're not just talking about a vlogger turned abuser.

This is a case that involves extreme control, religious fanaticism,

and what some experts have described as a cult-like grip on an entire family. But today,

we're not focusing on Ruby. We're looking at Kevin, Frankie, the husband who stayed. He has regrets. We'll talk about that in a

moment. The man who says he still loves the woman who tortured their children. The man who

many believe could have stopped this but didn't. So the question we have to ask is, was Kevin

Frankie a manipulated victim of the same

psychological coercion that destroyed his family? Or was he a man who failed his kids? Ignored the

red flags and is now just trying to clean up the mess. Chavon Scott, psychotherapist and author

joining us for the conversation.

I got to ask about this.

What do we know about the way manipulative personalities can slowly, insidiously take over, not just one person, but an entire household?

And what sort of psychological factors could explain why Kevin stayed so long, even when his children were clearly suffering?

It's counterintuitive that somebody would do this.

But when you look at the dynamics of the Jody Hildebrand cult, which I don't think

there's any other good word to describe it, you can start to make sense of it. The sense of her as

an authority figure, who was validated by the LDS faith, and people that were raised in this

kind of hierarchy, where you listen to the authorities as the voice

of God, in essence, it really sets them up for what I have always termed with Kevin, this

pathological passivity. You know, he went along even before Jody with very harsh parenting, which

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