You are listening to the Roberta Glass True Crime Report, putting the true back in true crime.

From New York City, Roberta Glass is now on the record.

There's a new documentary on HBO called Crazy, Not Insane, that follows the career of psychiatrist Dorothy Otno Lewis. Lewis has made a career of studying the psychology of

murderers concluding that many of our most dangerous killers were suffering from

dissociative identity disorder, brain damage, and or an abusive childhood. The film is directed

and produced by Alex Gibney. To talk with me about this is True Crime Observer Shana. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for

talking to me about this. What did you think of this film? You know what? I went into it skeptical.

I'm always skeptical when I hear a documentary on, you know, especially HBO or Netflix. And I

read about it beforehand. So I knew it was going to be a lot about

multiple personality disorder, which I'm already skeptical about. And I went in with as open of a mind as I

could. And she doesn't come off well in the movie. So I was very, I was skeptical all the way to the end. And then I looked some stuff up and I was like,

yep, it's exactly what I thought it was going to be full of misleading lies. And it was a death

penalty advocacy film. It was just, oh, there's so much wrong with it. Yeah, I have some of those concerns.

And I think what will make this conversation interesting is I'm less skeptical than you are

on dissociative identity disorder. I've known someone with that. Okay, good. That is interesting.

I was less skeptical. But at the same time, Dr. Dorothy Lewis, this was really

a love letter, or supposed to be a love letter documentary about her. Oh, yeah. It calls her a pioneer

that the world is just not ready, still not ready for her research and still not ready to accept it.

But she got a career that started off looking at death penalty cases. And she was hired by the defense to come in and give reasons why this person

shouldn't be executed. And her first real interest seemed to be, at the time was known as multiple personality disorder.

And we saw a lot of footage and she said, I couldn't believe my colleagues, couldn't believe it when I showed them video that was presented and it was right in front of their eyes and they still wouldn't believe it.

But we also get to see the video of Arthur Shawcross, which was her first big case,

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