Do we care more about the place where we live than about the nation we live in?
Moral Maze
BBC
4.4 • 626 Ratings
🗓️ 26 June 2026
⏱️ 58 minutes
🔗️ Recording | Apple Podcasts | RSS
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
If Andy Burnham has a four-word philosophy, it is 'the politics of place', a phrase he uses often. Burnham argues that politics must concentrate on meeting local needs, on the devolution of power and on 'levelling up' the places that have been doing badly.
While he was winning in Makerfield, the Scottish Conservatives were winning in Aberdeen South, on a promise to revive the North Sea oil and gas industry. That too was the politics of place.
Burnham’s philosophical opponents say that 'the politics of place' is wrong-headed. What really matters is the destiny of the United Kingdom as a whole. Localism, they argue, undermines national cohesion and elevates nimbyism. It rewards failure and punishes success. The Americans call it pork-barrel politics.
The battle between localists and UK nationalists engages all politicians. Plaid Cymru and the Scottish National Party are by definition on one side of the line; the DUP in Northern Ireland is on the other. At Westminster, MPs go cross-eyed trying to watch over their constituencies and their careers at the same time. Boris Johnson created a Department for Levelling-Up. Angela Rayner called it ‘government by gimmick’ and abolished it in 2024.
If localism is the answer for Makerfield, is it also the answer for Sparkbrook, where voters might like different licensing laws? Or for Adlington, where locals hate the idea of a new housing estate? Or for Harmondsworth, which doesn’t want a Heathrow third runway at the bottom of the garden?
The politics of place; it looks good. But will Burnham, like Pandora, open this tempting box, only to release all the troubles of the world? In his victory speech he promised us ‘hope’. In the Greek myth, the gift of hope was merely a consolation prize.
Chair: Michael Buerk Panel: Anne McElvoy, Ash Sarkar, Giles Fraser, and Sonia Sodha Witnesses: Paul Vallely, Maxwell Marlow, Sir Paul Collier and David Goodhart. Producer: Dan Tierney Assistant Producer: Peter Everett Editor: Tim Pemberton
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. |
| 0:06.9 | Hi, I'm Zing Singh. |
| 0:08.3 | And I'm Simon Jack. |
| 0:09.3 | And together we host Good Bad Billionaire. |
| 0:11.4 | The podcast exploring how some of the world's richest people made their fortunes. |
| 0:15.2 | And we're back for a new season with a brand new lineup of billionaires. |
| 0:18.6 | Yeah, global pop icon Beyonce. |
| 0:20.6 | Hollywood movie director Stephen Spielberg. |
| 0:22.8 | Football superstar Christiana Rinaldo, anyone? |
| 0:25.2 | And as ever, we're asking you to decide whether they're good, bad or just another billionaire. |
| 0:30.0 | That's good, bad, billionaire. |
| 0:31.3 | Listen first on BBC Sounds. |
| 0:34.6 | Good evening. |
| 0:36.1 | Andy Burnham's voice cracked when he talked of leaving Manchester for the back door of Downing Street. |
| 0:42.9 | I was emotional leaving Manchester too, wild with joy, in fact, sang all the way down the M6. |
| 0:49.0 | Manchester was a dead and a live hole 50 years ago. The men talked only of football, the women of Chilblains, |
| 0:55.8 | whatever they are. It's different now, of course. The niece of the north, they call it, |
| 1:00.3 | apparently, without the weather. But look, even that's changing. Those searching for our |
| 1:06.2 | presumed next Prime Minister's philosophy soon come up with what he calls the politics of place, |
| 1:12.7 | meeting local needs, devolving power down, levelling up. |
| 1:18.0 | It's all the rage. |
| 1:19.1 | The other startling by-election result was the Tories, yes, the Tories, winning in Aberdeen South, |
... |
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