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The Good Fight

Disaster is Political

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7964 Ratings

🗓️ 10 July 2021

⏱️ 53 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Niall Ferguson is a Scottish-American historian whose interests span from WW1 to Henry Kissinger to the history of money. His most recent book, Doom—completed at the height of the COVID crisis—attempts to rethink the distinction between “man-made” and “natural” disasters. Ferguson examines the historical record from Vesuvius to viruses and concludes that societies are guilty of repeated misjudgments and delusions; but he avoids ascribing any immutable pattern to the unpredictable trajectory of disasters. He is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and a senior faculty fellow of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Niall Ferguson discuss the dangers of bureaucratization in disaster-management, debate populism and the threat from China, and examine the common threads linking catastrophes throughout history. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: podcast@persuasion.community  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams, Brendan Ruberry and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

The Economist provides independent journalism for independent thinking and has been

0:05.1

championing progress for almost 200 years.

0:08.3

With the Economist, you gain access to fact-based, deeply researched expert analysis of world events and topics

0:14.3

ranging from business and culture to politics, science and technology.

0:18.2

Tune into the global conversation with reporting from correspondence around the world, available in-app online through

0:25.0

podcasts and print.

0:26.6

So for fact sake, search the economist.

0:30.3

I think the politics of the catastrophe is just much more complicated than people

0:34.6

want it to be. There were lots of people last year writing awful op-ed saying

0:38.6

this shows that the Chinese system is much superior to our chaotic democratic system and this was just

0:43.9

nonsense because the Chinese system was the reason the pandemic happened. They

0:47.7

had the Chernobyl problem at the beginning that everybody lied in ways that

0:52.4

you wouldn't have had if the virus had originated in a Western country.

0:56.2

So I don't think it's right to say that what happened last to you was some great advert for the Chinese model, nor was it a terrible indictment of the American system.

1:08.1

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk. It has now been over half a year since Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential elections.

1:27.3

It's easy to forget how pivotal that election was, how disastrous things would be if Trump was now at the beginning of his second office,

1:36.0

and how rare an achievement it was for an authoritarian populace to be thrown out of office

1:41.8

with free and fair elections after only one term.

1:45.8

So if you're interested in the fate of a town populist around the world and the prospects

1:51.6

for a democratic fight back. The key question is whether that was an

1:55.6

aberration or whether it was the beginning of a wider trend. Now it will be easy to make the case for pessimism. Big populist democracies from

2:07.2

India to Brazil are still ruled by authoritarian populists. People like Norengramodin India, or for that matter, Red Sep Adolph. for a or one of his allies will come back to power in 2024.

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