I would have laid my body across the road before I would have left the Vice President overturned the 2020 election.

On Wednesday night, I got a text from Michael Ludig.

He was in Washington and he wanted to get a drink.

It was the night before his testimony in front of the January 6th Committee.

So, I immediately caught an Uber and made my way to the Hay Adams Hotel where he was staying.

Ludig and his wife had just finished taking a walk around the White House, which is across the street.

He's usually quick to joke, but he was in a serious and contemplative mood.

He drank water. I had him in hadn't.

I could tell that the gravity of the hearing was weighing on him.

Back in February, Ludig came on this podcast and told for the first time the full story of his role advising Vice President Mike Pence.

So, he was an obvious guest for the Committee on a day when it was focused on the pressure campaign to get Pence to reject Slates of electoral votes on January 6th.

But that's not really what was on his mind anymore.

He told me that he hadn't come to Washington to testify about the facts of his role that day.

Listening to him talk about what the Committee wanted from him and what he intended to do, I realized that Ludig planned to go rogue.

This is Playbook Deep Dive. I'm Ryan Liza.

What Ludig really wanted to do was shake the American people by the collar and warn them about the ongoing threat to democracy, not the plot that he had helped thwart back on January 6th, 2021.

He's been around Washington a long time. He knew that members of Congress get to ask the questions, but witnesses get to say whatever they want in response.

Ultimately, the Committee did something unusual in the hearing to accommodate Ludig's wish.

At the very end, Chairman Benny Thompson turned to Ludig and gave him an opportunity to share your thoughts and opportunity to deliver his warning.

On the ongoing threat.

Watching Ludig's testimony on Thursday, I kept thinking back to our four-hour conversation earlier this year.

Because at the hearing, Ludig was confounding to a lot of viewers, judging by the reaction on social media.

...