Welcome to indoctrination, a weekly conversation series about protecting yourself from systems of control.

I'm your host, Rachel Bernstein.

On the show today, we have Dr. Michelle Haslam.

She's a clinical psychologist who became involved with the new Kadampa tradition

in 2016, living in their meditation center in Northamptonshire, England. Michelle experienced

indoctrination and spiritual abuse within the group, and despite her training as a psychologist, came to believe

that she should be destroying her ego instead of practicing self-care and self-compassion.

Now Michelle produces materials that explain the process of indoctrination within Buddhist cultic groups.

Michelle has since been a target of harassment via her workplace and also character assassination

from senior members of the group. As a result, her workplaces now remain confidential.

But you can visit her website

at www. www.new Kadampa Tradition Report.org

or the YouTube channel, Recovery from the New Kadampa Tradition.

Here's part one of my conversation with Michelle Husslam.

Well, I'm so happy today to have Michelle Husslm on the show because, you know, when you

contacted me and told me about your experiences

and also being able to speak about your experiences from your history, but also from your

professional awareness and your studies, it was a really lovely combination. And what you're going to be talking

about is a group that I've heard about, but certainly not from your perspective. And so I

certainly, I want to hear about what you experienced and then also what you've learned based upon your studies and what you would like the audience

to be able to learn in a specific way about the group, but I'm supposing a general sense

about control and manipulation, intimidation, all of it that's been part of your story as well.

...