The following talk was given at the Insight Meditation Center in Redwood City, California.

Please visit our website at audioderma.org. So, So now continuing with this fourth talk on the eight worldly winds.

And this worldly wins. And in the teachings of the Buddha, the fourth one is pleasure and pain.

I've noticed that in a lot of popular teachings on the four

heavenly will wins, pleasure and pain, comfort and discomfort, is listed first.

So whether it should be listed first or not, I don't know.

But one way of interpreting that the Buddha puts at last

is that maybe it's the most difficult to because pleasure and

and pleasure and pain is something very personal.

It's something that we experience.

Things like the other six, gain and loss, that can be somewhat personal.

We gain and lose our abilities and physical capacities, but often it has to do with gaining and losing things in the world and but you know especially

things like fame and disrepute.

As deep as that can travel into our psyche, into our hearts, it's still having to do with the

world of ideas and the external world what other people think.

Praise and blame, same thing.

But pleasure and pain is something that we experience intimately, closely, physically with ourselves.

And so maybe it's easier.

Oh, so that I'm hearing seeing people, so the sound is going in and out. Hmm, me too. So I don't know.

Fine for me. So some people say it's fine. Yes, comes and go. No problem with sound here. Yes, so it's possible that the problem is here at I., but that maybe those of you with different devices

have a different effect, you know, a different effect.

Okay, so some people you're probably seeing the chats.

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